Sun, surf, and segregation

[beetiger]

I’m back from a week of pure escapist lounging in Key West. I managed to get plenty of sun without collecting a sunburn, plenty of water while only getting slightly queasy once or twice, several slices of excellent Key Lime pie, the opportunity to commune with both stray cats and chickens and captive butterflies, and my recommended weekly allowance of drag shows. The week’s soundtrack was overall excellent, though lediva did lament the lack of Beach Boys. Most importantly, I got a well-needed big ol’ chunk of high-quality time with lediva, who is just an amazingly wonderful person to be around.

We stayed at Pearl’s Rainbow, a women-only resort in the old part of Key West, and a perfect home base for wandering around. It was quirky and comfortable and populated by older-than-Spring-Breakers lesbian couples, who lounged around a pool surrounded by tropical plants, sunning themselves. It was cozy and safe feeling and just right. I’m not sure why part of me feels, on a gut level, that these people are more like me than the perfect-in-a-bikini 22 year-old Spring Breakers on the boats, without talking to either of them. It’s all physical stereotyping, and it makes me feel vaguely ashamed when I catch myself at it. Sometimes I feel like a real fake in lesbian spaces, me with the wedding ring and the phallic talisman tucked into my clothing and the sort of straightish look and the determinedly ambisexual spirit.

In general, I’m kind of conflicted about the fact that I really enjoy women’s spaces, gay or straight. I know so many gender-variant people who’d love to be welcomed into that kind of community, and just can’t for physical reasons manage it. I know people in male bodies who are much more safe/caring/loving/add-your-own-stereotype-here than some women that I know. I’ve been in women’s groups where people are gossipy, catty, and just not very nice, and ones where the main topic of conversation is male-bashing. And I can’t really put my finger firmly on what the difference in womanspace is, something that feels energetically different, something about the gender sameness that matters, even though by all reasonable rights it shouldn’t. Nevertheless I really crave it, especially in a spiritual/religious context.

Now I’m back in the office, with a lab bay filled with about seventeen quadrillion boxes that got sent to me during the week, a dusting of snow on the grass outside, and no increase in desire to hang out with my coworkers, whom I’m not sure noticed that I was gone. Life goes on.

Comments

[tygermoonfoxx.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting the link to Pearl's Rainbow! I'm thinking that I might want to give myself a treat sometime and stay a weekend there by myself. It looks like it would be a lot of fun and I occasionally need to escape the husband.

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

It's a cool place -- I recommend it! Do check in advance, though, I think they may not be dog-friendly.

[tygermoonfoxx.livejournal.com]

In my particular case, it wouldn't matter....Florida law requires any establishment that has facilities open to the public to allow access to those of us with service animals. They probably don't allow pets, but Freyja isn't a pet.

[eetmewithtoast.livejournal.com]

Shit, you may be a fake-lesbian, but at least you have someone to go to cool womyn-only spaces like that one with.

At least your Bisexual Card is up-to-date. The last large stamp on mine is from 1996.

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

*leers playfully at you* I think I've got one of those stamps around here somewhere....

Re:

[eetmewithtoast.livejournal.com]

Oh, no rush. You can bring it to my party. ;)

[queenofstripes.livejournal.com]

Sun, surf, and segregation

o/~ We're stabbing our brothers and sisters in the back I'm gonna say
Na, na na na na na, I ain't gonna play Sun City... o/~

I really wish I'd saved a copy of that challenge to single-gender spaces I sent off to aynjel's friend.

Lediva did lament the lack of Beach Boys

*punctuated, smirking silence*

*beat*

"Maybe Brian could've snuck in with a set of falsies."

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

I really wish I'd saved a copy of that challenge to single-gender spaces I sent off to aynjel's friend.

I'd be curious to see it, if you find it or can reconstruct it. I'm sure you've got more to say than "it's discrimatory and I want in!", which is the usual argument. I think we've only discussed the topic briefly once before, and I was hard to understand at the time because I was wearing my new fangs.

And as I said above, I often feel quite torn that womenspace is so primally emotionally satisfying to me, because on an intellectual level the concept kind of disappoints.

[queenofstripes.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you've got more to say than "it's discrimatory and I want in!"

I wish I were as sure as you. I can't help but feel they misidentify the thing they're trying to sort for. While that sorting is useful even if flawed, it does a hell of a lot of harm to people like me -- not just in terms of missed opportunities, but of the false distinctions it perpetuates. There's still ample room for compromise, but short of things like TransBound, the feminist community doesn't seem to waste any time worrying about whether their postgendered allies are getting the door slammed in their faces. As I pointed out to Sev (Aynjel's friend), I am not a mere auxiliary to feminism, nor a camp follower. Feminism is the intellectual root of all gender criticism in modern society (AFAIK?). There is no masculine alternative except for queer theory, which a) is an academic offshoot of feminism anyhow and b) doesn't really represent my own goals or identity in most forms. Women's spaces are the only spaces where some of these issues are being robustly discussed. If I must start a group of my own out in the parking lot... so be it, but the feminist movement will lose itself a potential supporter and I'll lose even more power.

I don't see why it's all right to filter out the entirety of the male sex regardless of behavior, because a few feel threatened by our presence as a whole, due of the actions or attitudes of a subset of people -- people who I, need it be pointed out, am not. It feels, in a very literal way, like visiting the sins of the father upon the child. Though it's the utter right of any citizen to operate or patronize any private group any way they like -- I even support the right of the Scouts to exclude homosexuals -- I think such exclusions on broad biological bases are socially counterproductive. Due to negative reinforcement and happenstance, I was wary around African-Americans for years. I was bullied and beaten regularly by a small group of them. The sociological forces that produced their behavior are real, widespread, and persistent. But how would you feel if I attended a whites-only vacation resort, or attended whites-only discussions about violence, to make sure that I would never repeat the experience?

If you can't make the distinction on the basis of real, consequential traits -- don't make them. Sev compares her desire to be in the company of women, for instance, to her desire to be in the company of her "favorite freaks." But these favored individuals have presumably been individually selected on the basis of their individual personalities, wits, and interests, correct? I do feel that, inevitable though it may be, to make the decision to exclude on the basis of such a broad, malleable trait as gender is "prejudice" by dictionary definition. It is a form of sexism that reinforces gender stereotypes and treats people as nothing more than their participation in a gender -- or their presumed participation. The women's movement presumes that feminine experience is unavailable to males, and I hold myself and my online experiences as evidence, however provisional and limited, that this is simply not the case. Though I retain a great many archetypally masculine traits -- some of which I'm sure would justly be unwelcomed in a feminist "safe space" -- how much lessened would those traits be, were I granted more opportunities to replace them with feminine ones? Once again... give us an "honorary womyn test" -- via ScanTron, if you must -- at the very least. Expand the definitions or collapse them, just don't presume that they are the things the women's movement asserts they are unless you are quite ready to defend the point to me at length. (Er, not directed at you, Bee, or at anyone in particular -- just possessed by the spirit of Emma Goldman again. ;) ) Otherwise, I'll continue believing that the feminist movement is, indeed, one of the very things that perpetuates and preserves the masculine traits to which it objects.

[queenofstripes.livejournal.com]

FWIW, here's the entry that specifically inspired me to contact Aynjel's friend. You can probably imagine why it has me in a sour mood today, though I don't hold it against her, or you... Her entries on single-gender spaces provoked me a bit less. But I'm still intensely uncomfortable being spoken of as if oppression -- or even danger -- somehow mystically radiated off of me because I was born with a chromosome that ostensibly favors me in a number of enterprises, or predisposes me towards a number of behaviors, in which I don't even have an interest.

[queenofstripes.livejournal.com]

And frankly, yes, it does offend me that I would attain at least grudging admittance to some of these gatherings if I subjected myself to months of hormone treatments and plastic surgery, as if the shape of my cheekbones, the slope of my larynx, and the particular variety of hormonal goo secreted through my brain could somehow determine my worthiness to participate. You know I despise that brand of biological reductionism. I'm almost tempted to make a classist argument here -- I'm uninsured, lower-middle class, and already in the work force (as opposed to a more fluid lifestyle like school or retirement), so it would be prohibitively difficult for me to have a full medical sex change at this stage of my life -- no matter how much I would embrace the change. So I should be locked out because, not to put too fine a point on it, I can't afford the admission fee? I've heard of clubs changing different amounts to women and men at the door... but $40,000 versus nothing is a bit steep, don't you think?

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

Well spoken. More on this later, if I have more energy...but I just wanted to state briefly that I feel really differently about primarly political or academic spaces such as the "feminist movement", which I strongly feel should be open to anyone with something to add, and primarily social spaces like a resort or a religious or sports organization. You seem to be putting these two together.

[secanth.livejournal.com]

(Smile) Just a side note, but if it were ME going on vacation, I think the only robust discussions I'd be having would be whether to hit the beach, the pool, or the hot tub.

That said, I think you're right about there being a difference. As an almost 50, bi, involved with another female person...well, I feel vastly uncomfortable *showing* that affection in 'public'. My love is even more inhibited about it. When I read the description, my first thought was "Oh, that would be wonderful!". I'd like to feel comfortable enough to 'spoon' with my love...but unless it is someplace specifically designated as such and that I KNOW is safe, I can't do it.

Yes, organizations are one thing...but a private vacation is something else. And I think I should have the option of going somewhere I'm comfortable enjoying myself. If no one provides that...well, hiding in hotels rooms to cuddle instead of holding hands down by the pool is a lot less fun.

[queenofstripes.livejournal.com]

I realize I didn't draw a clear distinction -- I thought about going into the details, but I figured I'd gone on long enough already. :> I have differing opinions on single-gender social spaces and single-gender political spaces... but it just boils down to why I think each is a bad idea to have single-gender, and what should rightfully be done about it.

In either case, I have a fairly (and uncharacteristically ;> ) libertarian attitude towards the solution. I don't mind the existence of such spaces as long as viable alternatives exist -- and as long as no force, intentional or otherwise, inhibits the creation of such spaces.

I think people should manage their "spaces" in a certain way because it's good for society, not because anyone else has the right to make them change against their will (unless it's a public institution or a monopoly). And the only weapon I can rightfully wield to make somebody open up their private spaces to me is my own reason and powers of persuasion.

In the case of social spaces, off the top of my head... For one thing, I do have a problem with the seeming double-standard that the feminist movement applies. I've never seen a good rationale (and I invite such -- I haven't done all that much research into this and I'm sure they exist) for why male-only places like the Scouts and the Augusta tournaments are to be lobbied against, but female-only places like Pearl's Rainbow are to be welcomed. I don't accept the argument that the power differential alone excuses it. Though real, I believe the power differential between men and women is also very fluid; it is entirely conceivable to me that there have developed cases in which women do oppress men, and in such cases that disparity too should be corrected.

Furthermore, once again, it raises the question of what, precisely, is being selected for. Is it something biological or psychological? If you'll forgive me being a bit wry again... if the purpose of Pearl's Rainbow were synchronized menstruation, I'd be all for it. :p But it's presumably the creation of a certain environment, where certain forms of human relation can thrive and others will be excluded. How predictably can those be associated with biological sex -- and to what extent can this separation be blamed for perpetuating this predictability?

[werellama.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those women who wears a wedding ring, but likes to date girls :)

Also, I like womens groups too, but I don't get into typical "girly" things. You give me a room full of women who like to read, or like anthropology, or learning about world religons and oh my GOD I'd be in heaven!!! I like brainy girls. Oh that reminds me, Beetiger...will you sleep with me?

*giggles*

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

Well, I'd certainly be happy to talk anthropology and world religions with you!

And play Scrabble. Anybody who wants to get anywhere with me has to be willing to play Scrabble. :)

Re:

[werellama.livejournal.com]

Wendy makes me play scabble too *giggles*!

[perlandria.livejournal.com]

scrabble?

I may swoon.

[tikvah.livejournal.com]

Scrabble? Did a smart funny sapiosexual gender-fluid furry mention Scrabble? I think my knees might be getting weak... ;)

[eetmewithtoast.livejournal.com]

Beetiger: I think it's mandated that you have a Scrabble Party.

You'll have to allow me to bring Encore (The Song-Filled Sing-Off Game!), because the longest word I put down in Scrabble is usually "cat". But sometimes I can put down "cats"

did you say scrabble?

[lapis-lazuli.livejournal.com]

Have board, will travel! :)

(and please consider this a much-belated "it was nice to meet you", because, well, it was nice to meet you, and I've been a bad Lapis and haven't written...)

Re: did you say scrabble?

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

Nice to meet you too. I am the world's worst correspondent.

[orb2069.livejournal.com]

If you own a Palm-OS PDA, you might be interested in Cross-words a Scrabble board/clone - I played a full game with M. on the trip back from Chicago. :)

Scrabble

[cloverr.livejournal.com]

Ahhh..Scrabble; count me in for a game--even though I'm actually kind of lame at it. (well, somebody has to lose) That game always reminds me fondly of my grandmother Pauline, who was a Scrabble whiz. My sister Coleen has inherited the family heirloom Webster's Dictionary, repaired with a strip of red book tape down the spine and marked throughout with handwritten notes as to scrabble point scores and dates of games played. :)

[orb2069.livejournal.com]

From my (Offline) Journal:
"... The whole KW experience is kind of surreal - Like a theme park for Jimmy Buffet fans, crossed with a tag-team pick-up scooter race."

:)