(no subject)

[beetiger]

Although I really enjoy hanging out and dreaming with people who are, I'm definitely not a transhumanist.

I think one of the reasons probably overlaps with one of the reasons that I'm not a Christian. I'm wary of any philosophy that focuses on the "next world" while not paying enough attention to this one. I'm afraid of feeling disconnected from the things that are right in front of me. I love the warmth of sun and the stars in the sky and the smell of ozone from rain on pavement and the sound of human voices singing, not just because of my experience of them, but because of the mundane conceptual background that tells me that they are there, and real. From this spot in my life, I like the reality that now matters, because we don't have forever. I still really think this is one of the things that drives us to do the work that does, in fact, move our world into the future.

This pregnancy makes me feel very biological. It's draining, in some ways, and I certainly am not happy about the temporary loss of the ability to think as critically as usual, but essentially it's a marvel. There's a groundedness about knowing that my body knows how to make a person, a person who is currently squirming and kicking and is going to do something that I've never dreamed of, in a world I'm never going to see. Check in with me in a few decades and ask again, but right now, I think I'm going to be ready to give the world to him to do that.

Maybe I'm not a transhumanist because I don’t think I'm likely to be as smart as the people who come after me, if I'm willing to step aside and leave them the world to play in. Maybe I'm not a transhumanist because I want to love this life to its fullest, and I really don't believe we are ready to succeed in time for me to realize those dream, and that fills me with frustration, rather than anticipation. Maybe I'm just lucky enough to be living in a body that mostly works. Maybe I'm just not very ambitious.

But I don't see much of a point in living forever if we haven't even figured out yet how to fully live right here, right now.

Comments

[lediva.livejournal.com]

Personally, death is an incredibly scary thing for me. I like being alive and all that comes with it. If given the chance to extend that, I'd take it without a second thought.

I'm admittedly confused by some of the parallels you draw between Christianity and transhumanism, though... I think of transhumanism as more of a way of improving the here and now, rather than some "next world". I mean, where do you think all the cyborgs and such are going to be living? Right here on Earth, presumably. :)

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

Given our current overtaxing of the earth, even if we figure out all of that technology about how to turn our garbage into fuel, if we start using technologies for extreme life extension, at least one of three things are going to have to happen:

1) A select few people are going to be allowed access to that technology. And I tell you babe, it probably ain't gonna be me and you.

2)We're going to have to stop having children entirely. And as I've said above, I really have more faith that entirely new people are going to do more to keep this world going than the same bunch of us who are here now, even if we all do gain a hell of a lot of wisdom. It will drop us out of a certain part of the cycle of life that's our heritage, and I think that would be a terrible, terrible loss. (Yes, I know some of the folks here disagree with me on this.)

3) We're going to have to take significant populations off-planet. And although I think it's fine if human evolution goes that way, I'm personally not interested.

As far as the relationship between some kinds of Christian thought and some kinds of transhuman thought: there are certainly folks who take an excuse of looking toward a bright and shiny future as an excuse to dismiss the importance of the present.
(I'm not saying any of you do this, by the way. I actually wasn't saying that any of you shouldn't be transhumanists, or Christians. I'm glad both exist, especially good, life-affirming examples of them who like to talk to me. They're just not philosophical frames that work for me personally.)

[lediva.livejournal.com]

1) A select few people are going to be allowed access to that technology. And I tell you babe, it probably ain't gonna be me and you.

Well... that doesn't mean the technology has NO redeeming values. Y'know A-bombs vs. power plants, etc.

2)We're going to have to stop having children entirely. And as I've said above, I really have more faith that entirely new people are going to do more to keep this world going than the same bunch of us who are here now, even if we all do gain a hell of a lot of wisdom. It will drop us out of a certain part of the cycle of life that's our heritage, and I think that would be a terrible, terrible loss. (Yes, I know some of the folks here disagree with me on this.)

3) We're going to have to take significant populations off-planet. And although I think it's fine if human evolution goes that way, I'm personally not interested.

I think I can respond to both of these... now, you know I'm an optimist generally. I believe that should people begin living significantly longer, they would take what is now a rather short-sighted self-interest into a longer-sighted self-interest. By which I mean I think people would realize the value and potential of our environment, and take better care of it, while simultaneously making better use.

If we make more efficient use of land and other natural resources, there wouldn't need to be as big a drop in childbirth. As it is, many countries are reaching just about Zero Population Growth.

As far as moving off-planet... well, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. I'm not particularly trying to convince anyone of anything in here anyway. I think it'd be nifty.

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

As far as moving off-planet... well, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything.

All I can say is that's going to make for one hell of a long-distance relationship. :0

[lediva.livejournal.com]

See? This is why we need FTL travel!

[beetiger.livejournal.com]

If given the chance to extend that, I'd take it without a second thought.

To be honest, given a body that hadn't fallen apart yet and a soundish sort of mind, I assume that at any particular point if I were to be asked "Are you all done now, or would you like to keep going for a bit?", I'd choose living. That's a characteristic of healthy living things, and I think there would be something pathological in anyone who wouldn't choose that on an individual level.

That's rather different than thinking about where we really ought to be going as a species, though.

[lediva.livejournal.com]

I dunno, my personal understanding is that transhumanism is about providing people with that choice.

And as far as evolution as a species... well, why not apply all our collective intellect (and the fruits thereof) towards that question?